I clicked on a random MPG Spec parse from a while ago where i knew i had 4 clerics. /GU -vs- Master of Specialization, Qusi was healed by: | Boops: 176226 | Queston: 112261 | Qusi: 48291 | Bogre: 28330 | Quest: 24899 | Pooftr: 19265 | Bogref: 12483 | Whombat: 2992 Thats cleric, cleric, war, sham, cleric, druid, sham, cleric from top to bottom. But ive done it with 2 clerics and no one dies even noobs with no gear.
Caster viability is an ever moving target from expansion to expansion. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse. Am I correct that OoW is one of the worse expansions for casters? I was wondering about that. Is this an Anguish thing? I run 3 clerics a shaman and a druid in my 18. 1 SK 0 War. If my tank stays up I'll win. If my tank doesn't, no amount of DPS will save the event. I can't imagine going through events like Ikkinz trials with so few healers.
To your first question.. I find that casters don't keep up with melee DPS once certain weapon ratios happen and your burns are set up well. It's just that wizards only get frenzied devastation that boosts their DPS and it's a long cool down between uses compared to something like speed focus which is 20ish minutes and then you can just click another one right after because they get so many more activated abilities than casters do. Plus when you run oom you can't do any damage anymore. I tried to parse a million damage on the dummies a while ago with my wiz mage and necro and didn't even make it to 600k because they ran out of mana, so how many more caster groups do you need to make up for that DPS gap?Usually one of my melee groups easily makes it there in about a minute. For your second point I think it's more of a problem that shadow knights can't mitigate damage nearly as well as a warrior, and I think you are underestimating how much more damage a second melee DPS group adds especially with a shaman 1.5/2.0. Stonewall and defensive half the damage incoming by like 50% for 3 minutes.. that's huge
Thanks again man, lots to think about and experiment with! In regards to the worn attack question, I'm not sure which plug in it is but with my toons if I type "/show" I will get a list of worn atk, acc, regen, etc, as well as a list of items they are wearing that have focus effects. Not at my comp right now so can't check but maybe sometime else knows which one that is.
There is a tradeoff here. Running extra clerics mitigates against stuns etc in events like Jelvan or Hanvar where missing a heal or 2 can be huge. I run 36 with 6 clerics. It's too many and I know that. As well as a wiz or dru for every group. Which is a convenience tradeoff I am loathe to give up right now. That being said, if I was going to tweak things I already know that a shm in the melee group is more than enough healing for that melee group. I would ditch my two mages and 2 clerics for one sham, 2 monks and a zerka. This would give me 3 melee groups (sham, brd, 4 mdps). Re-balance healing to suit and I think it would be golden for MPG/Anguish.
Or you have to use vet aa's. Jelvan was really difficult for me until I used infusion and no longer got silenced. I also like three shamans because it helps me slow hard encounters like that and really reduces the DPS of the bosses. Hanvar is really easy if turgurs lands or I can reapply balance a bunch. It strains 2 clerics a lot if you have trouble slowing, but nothing that staunch can't fix (hopefully). I have gotten some private messages about how this setup would do in a true progression fashion with no outside help. I don't really know? I built my team over 4 or 5 years and raided with others of similar level on and off and we beat mpg, tacvi and omm with significantly worse gear and dps than I have on my team now. There is definitely a threshold of aa, gear and ini setup that once you hit it kind of trivializes encounters. I think we need more data across all levels / gear levels. I know you that veteran aa especially infusion really mitigate a lot of these effects. Using infusion for jelvan and omm practically erases the silence. I'm sure using infusion for naggy and vox would trivialize those fights as well making you fearless. I'm interested if anyone has healing data where more than 2 or 3 clerics Dona significant amount of healing and whether that was done in cheal chains or what
Lots of great info here. As someone who's spent 10 years (slowly) building out a 42 box, I can say once you hit a certain.. 'average' gear level, you're absolutely right about clerics. I think the endurance trial is the only time I actually see 3-4 clerics going less than 70m, while in the heal chain. I don't use the heal chain for any other event currently on PEQ, and 2 clerics seem to be all it takes to keep the main tank up even during OMM while my 3x monks, 3x rogues and 3x zerkers do their thing. (ok ok the two enchanters I run do the majority of DPS on OMM but that's a unique situation) I definitely made some tweaks to the zerker INIs based on your info above and noticed a huge difference. thanks! And for what it's worth - investing in the cleric AAs Ward of Purity made the Jelvan Event instantly easier. I do have 7 clerics for my 7 groups, and having 7 cure wards down basically negates the silence altogether along with a few of their other fun status effects. Useful on quite a few of the anguish events actually. Ture still has a magic based dot and WH's slow is magic based unfortunately, but the wards are very helpful!
Glad to hear! I'm glad people are finding things helpful - I can see that having 7 wards would really make a big difference but only having two can be spicy at times haha which is why I use infusion. I actually had my worst jelvan in a long time this morning where I lost my 2 main shamans at different points to rampage DMG. If I don't execute well, and set ramp tanks it can go poorly but I still won.. as long as the clerics and main tank win I can battle rez most everyone else if I need too. Hope more people can chime in with heal parses from certain gear levels
How do people go about battle rezzing efficiently? I haven't found a good way to make a cleric divine rez a specific toon mid-fight without switching screens and taking the character over manually.
Vet AA's yes, but I am loathe to depend on a 'once a day' effect when I like clearing a few Anguish bosses in one run. As someone mentioned above, apart from Hanvar, wards are a must on Anguish fights. Thus, the number of clerics needs to be carefully balanced. It's about margin for error. The Jelvan fight particularly annoys me in this regard because the 'hard' bit is the first 20 secs or so. After that, its just chewing through the HP. Trying to do OMM with only 4 wards for both phases will be a little tricky I think. The silence isn't the problem there, its Mark of Death. I will start dropping some heal parses in here next set of Anguish but looking at my set up and the requirements for wards (and what we have discussed here) I am thinking that a 24 raid is optimum at 2 clerics (like you have), a 30 its 3 (maybe 4 as you progress for margin of error) and for 36+ then its 4.
I don't know if there is any efficiency about it lol but I just target the corpse and /rezit You can do the same thing with buffing that I feel like most people don't know.. Target a character and /buffit and all your bots with groupbuff= will do their thing.
There are some comments in older threads about raid composition about using only 2 clerics for anguish and it's all about timing wards. Not a very thorough comment and no one commented back really but I also was online when wardivious* beat omm with 24 years back now. He was probably mostly best in slot at that point and barbatos claims someone did it with 18. Kind of not in line with what we are talking about in the initial thread about maximizing your DPS via ini, vet aa to progress or get a new boss on farm until you have enough gear. I have a side project going with 12 outcast characters that will form the base of a new raid and 12 brand new characters. I'm going to see how few AA, few clerics, what gear you really need to try and beat some of these bosses. Will take me a while since it's now my busy season but hopefully I can get some data to support worse gear cases.
Ya that's what I do, just /rezit and hope for the best. Some times though I want a divine rez so do that manually.
Here's my old log thread if you guys haven't seen it. Once WoW classic wrath is over I should be back here Just some parses. | Page 2 | ProjectEQ Just remember a lot of my dps are not using 2.0s, I never got Bard/Mnk/Zerk 2.0s actually my warriors might be the only ones with 2.0s. Wizard dmg will be on par if you have enough to keep the 2.0 click up full time in CoA + druid to boost.
It takes more context for wizards, like what fight? Ture - they can do pretty well but if you didn't have 2.0s on your top DPS classes then of course they can keep up? It just really isn't close if you have burns set how I outlined them and 2.0s. i know bardnax was big on wizards but whenever i saw his parses it was underwhelming. I even referred to his hanvar fight that took a super long time.
/GU Overlord Mata Muram (2) in 278s, 7198k @25894 | Chameron 382k {7} | Mousasi 363k {7} | Bonesjones 338k {7} | Coerced Lieutenant 335k | Obituary 334k {7} | Kilborne 328k {7} | Coruu 317k {7} | Namajunas 316k {7} | Corii 302k {7} | Coree 288k {7} | Miraga 273k {7} | Diabsoule + pets 224k | Fata 216k {7} | Ghettoblaster 191k {7} | Snakedance + pets 190k I dug through some logs since I saw you linked an omm combine parse and found one from a well known player that I logged on an alt mage before he switched his zerkers to my set up but the distribution is pretty much the same. After the switch the zerkers behind the monks but close to the rogs. Monks 1-3, chanter pet, rog 5-6, zerker, rog, zerker 9-10, rog, ranger, wizard, bard Wizards don't really do well unless you neglect everyone else and focus only on them. That's the magic of peq though - so many different ways to play and have fun.
Nope, highest % will take effect. Speed focus is the best in the game for a long time. Warcry is still good for everyone else though.
Im still getting toons to 70, nevermind even AAing them, but this is my current plan for a raid comp; Tank Grp War Pal Sk Brd Monk Clr Cast1 Brd Enc Dru Wiz Wiz Wiz Cast2 Brd Enc Clr Wiz Wiz Mage Cast3 Brd Enc Clr Wiz Wiz Nec Melee1 Brd Shm Rog Zerk Mnk Rng Melee2 Brd Shm Rog Zerk Mnk bl Melee3 Brd Shm Rog Zerk Mnk Mnk
Not sure if there is a question here or are you just looking for ideas? I would just replace the monk with a cleric in your first group and and get rid of one of your caster groups to make another tank group so you have 2 groups of tanks: war, knight, bard, cleric, cleric, (whatever here, even wizard works well if your worried about ports) I think I wrote about this in either the post body or a comment, but people really underestimate the power of Divine Arbitration and the epic 2.0. You can change the % that they fire for each cleric in the INI.. so having staggered DA in your tank groups is far more powerful than the monk aura or having a ton of clerics at different heal %. If you look at the parses for healing, it is typically Cleric 1, Cleric 2, Warrior (reptile) doing 80% of the healing total. It is my opinion, that there is no stronger set up than having at least 2 clerics in the tank group because you end up with 4 versions of DA which are mana free cast that instantly balance your groups health. Can make a huge difference if your tank is getting a big spike down
